RE:

["Clarke, Carol A - Hazelwood" <CAClarke2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Erin I think you made so valid points. I have been out so long it is had to
remember not everyone knows I gay. But I still remember the first two years
of coming out.

Now this is going to sound strange and off topic but it does relate. I grew
up in the suburbs of Boulder Co. In a small neighborhood. Everyone knew
everyone. Do something wrong and some one would have already called your
parents before you could make it home. 

So everyone knew everyone else's business. Since most of the people in my
neighborhood world for IBM. Noah or CU it was upper middle class. 
Class does have a place in our own prejudges hence my including it. 
Being the kind of neighborhood people did have affairs from time to time.
Break up the boredom. This made the housewife happy because the had
something to talk about. (I was a child it's my memories.)
When people had affairs it was a bad nasty thing. People whispered about it.
etc etc. The world they used for a person having an affair was lover. 
He or she was so and so lover. Not husband or wife or partner. LOVER.

Fast forward. I grow up. (Stop growing) I come out. The PC term for once
love interest was lover. The word Girlfriend was a bad nasty thing and
people frowned when you used it. I know someone at the Gay and Lesbian
center frown at me for using it and gave me a long speech.

Not good when you first come out. The thing was I just come not bring myself
to use the label LOVER. It was a cheap thing you did when you snuck around.
I came out so I didn't have to sneak around. 

First point, we choice labels from our life experience. Just because you do
the act doesn't make you the word. I was gay long before I sleep with a
women. (And god do I regret some of the men. Not all some before I found the
right word that fit me.)

Ok Buffy and Willow Gay Bi or Straight with rights to experiment. It depends
on were they are in there life's. Buffy and Willow hook up and ride off into
the sun set. Gay. Everything before null and void. You have to find yourself
before you use labels. 
Spend there lives with each but feel Bi. It's there lives sort of. 
College who didn't experiment with something. I went through a Somerset
Maugh phase I still haven't lived down. 

So big mouth and talk to much but that is my opinion. Really would like to
hear others.

-----Original Message-----
From: Erin [mailto:erin@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 4:56 PM
To: buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [buffywantswillow] 


From: Erin <erin@xxxxxxxxxxx>

On Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:51:21 -0500 , you wrote:

>From: CAClarke2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>I was also thinking that I would love to see you do a story were only one
of
>our heroes, Willow or Buffy comes out. And least for a long time. I can see
>this happing in high school. I see Will first like in your story. I think
>Buffy would take it hard at first but Xander would take it harder. I would
>like to see you do it because you do sweet so well. Your charters have
>depth.
>Anyway I can see the high school rumor mill finding out. Cordy not meaning
>to spread it around but does. Buffy who worried a lot about image in high
>school having to do the whole guilt by association. I think she would do
>major charter growing.

I agree, I think that it would be interesting to see what the effects
were. I know the whole "coming out in HS" thing has been done in
other stories, but always as a kind of afterthought, or sideline. It
would be interesting to see what happened if it was brought center
stage.

>Plus sometime the straight/ gay friendship thing can have more angles then
>you might think. Throw in Bi. 

I'd be interested in what people think here about the whole
lesbian/bisexual angle. In specific, I have a couple questions I'd
like to see people's reactions to.

If you accept canon, Willow and Buffy would be *at most* bisexual.
You can depart from canon and say that Xander, Oz, Angel, etc. didn't
really mean anything, which is fine, but if you were interested in a
mostly-canonical story, they would probably be bi. This having been
said:

-Would you call a Buffy/Willow relationship a "lesbian relationship",
considering neither are lesbian?

-Would you consider either Buffy or Willow to be "gay"? Is this a term
you consider to be associated with lesbians, bisexuals, or both?

-How likely would B/W be to use labels like bisexual, gay, lesbian,
etc.? It has been my experience that labels can be very important to
people who are trying to come to grips with alternative sexuality, and
also people who are very outspoken and proud of it.

I'm just curious to see what other people here think about this.

Erin
-- 
"Then again, what is college for if not experimenting?" 
-- Willow, BtVS
*email: erin@xxxxxxxxxxx

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